Sean Riley:
So with all the fancy introductions out of the way, welcome to the podcast, Sean.
Sean Spees:
Good morning. How we doing?
Sean Riley:
We're doing good. We're going to confuse some of the listeners out there with two Seans who, as you noted when we were talking earlier, both spell it the correct way. So I guess to kick things off, could you just give us a little background on Bosch Rexroth and your role there so that people know exactly who they're listening to.
Sean Spees:
Yeah. I'd be happy to. So Bosch Rexroth is part of the Bosch company that was founded in Stuttgart, Germany. Rexroth falls under the Bosch Group, which would be the drives and controls for packaging and processing. My role at the company is market segment manager for consumer package goods.
Sean Riley:
Interesting. And that's a huge topic that we've covered because the consumers are driving a lot of the changes and a lot of the challenges that everybody is facing in our marketplace. So I guess, what are some of the challenges that you are seeing in your role that CPGs are grappling with is they're trying to keep up with all these shifting consumer demands and with that, how they can adapt their packaging and vis a vis that their packaging lines to stay flexible and nimble to keep up with it.
Sean Spees:
Yeah, it's a great question. And the challenges that I've seen in my career, one is space. Okay. And when you look at factory automation, space is always the one thing that was the last thing thought of, when you're putting the line together, it's always making the product first. And then when you look at the secondary or tertiary packaging side of it is where there seems to be issues. So there's always space constraints. There's always the labor side of it. So when you look at labor today, as far as the current workforce, we're getting what's called the silver tsunami that's happening now, where we're getting the baby boomer era are starting to retire. So we're having the next generation of operators and maintenance folks that are coming into play. That's creating some challenges, finding that labor is another challenge and then really support when you look internally and external.
Sean Spees:
When you look at, especially from an end user perspective, the folks in the engineering departments and maintenance and production, they're wearing a lot of hats and they're spread really thin. So even internally, it's hard to support projects, to be honest. So they're looking for partners out there as well, that can take these responsibilities of line design, that can take integration responsibilities and help them out. But then the external side of it too, is you got to find those folks out there that can actually support, supports production line, support parts, have technicians available. So those some of the main challenges there. And at the end of the day, really the multiple SKUs that are coming out.
Sean Spees:
So in consumer package goods, it's smaller, we're looking at the eCommerce side of the business now where folks want to order one or two things versus 10, and it has to be packaged in a certain way. Okay. So when you look at the flexibility of, let's say packaging machinery, there's only so many, so small or so big, spec wise that these machines can handle. So, as you said earlier, the consumers are driving this. They want what they want and the OEMs and end users have to find a way to deliver.
Sean Riley:
Yeah. And I guess from your standpoint, or from the standpoint of the CPGs, when you're looking at all these different ways to try and improve things, or enhance flexibility on your lines, are there places, low hanging fruit that the companies can target that might be ripe for improvement, or areas that they can improve that'll be easier than others?
Sean Spees:
Yeah, absolutely. So, the first item is changeover and ease of use when you look at overall flexibility, when we're changing over from different products or different sizes, from the OEM side of the business, the customers or the end user, let's say the customer being the end user, they want it quick. They don't have the time to do an eight hour changeover for a different product. So any time that can be saved to change over to a different product is only going to help their production numbers and get more products out the door, which is going to help profitability. So, when you look at different drives and motors that are out there, they've got to be small, they have to be effective to fit within these certain machines, but really the customer, the end user operators, just at the end of the day, they want to push a button. That's how easy they want it, is-.
Sean Riley:
Yeah, exactly.
Sean Spees:
... to push it and have the machine change over itself. So, flexibility and changeover is a definite need and want. When you look at redirection of labor, mentioned labor earlier, there's a lot of operators and production folks that are doing jobs that honestly robots can do today. Not necessarily saying we want to eliminate labor, but there's a way to redirect it. Okay. And they can go do something else within the plant to make it more productive. And that's where the robotics and autonomous mobile robotics for one come into play when you're looking at transporting pallets, for instance, from the end of a production line to the bay doors, the dock doors for loading. Okay, there's robots that can do that now, that are very simple to program. You look at collaborative robotics.
Sean Spees:
So collaborative robotic is a robot you can actually work next to, okay, where you don't need fencing and guarding around it, which again, takes up space and operators can walk within certain distances, or if they somehow bump into it, the robot stops and it doesn't cause injury, which is nice. So they can do various activities such as case packing. They can do activities such as palletizing if the cases are lightweight and the, line speeds are slow enough. So again, you don't have to have a person at the end of the line picking up a four pound box for an eight hour shift, which could cause ergonomic issues, which then you've got workman's comp and you've got some other items there.
Sean Spees:
So, there's ways to do that, from a labor perspective to redirect, and then also from a safety perspective, have a more productive facility that way. And then the other item we're really seeing a push in right now is mixed pallets in variety packs. Okay. And going back to the consumer, if you look at beverages, for instance, there's different sodas and carbonated soft drinks and seltzers and everything else, and nobody wants the same flavor, everybody wants a different flavor. They want three different flavors. So again, that has to come off a line, production line has to be grouped into these certain flavors and has to be packaged. So that's another upstream process that somebody has to do to get to the consumer, same thing with whether it's a food product or whether it's a personal care product. Those are the demands right now that production lines have to be flexible on to be able just to produce one type of product, or to produce multiple that go basically in the same container.
Sean Riley:
Very interesting. So I guess you've really touched on a bunch of different developments in automation that are going to help CPGs. Are there any that we haven't touched on yet that we might have missed that are going to help them overcome the challenges to keep things flexible beyond, you talked about cobots, you talked about a different ways to move operators off the line into better positions. Are there any other things that are going to help make the lines even more flexible?
Sean Spees:
Yeah, there's, from a new development standpoint in the last several years, smaller componentry is one. Okay. Let me go back to space again, that there's ways to reduce your overall footprint of your current machines, there's ways to reduce electrical panel space depending on the type of equipment that's on the line, the electrical panel can take up a large portion of that line, okay, which could take up walkway space, or just general space in the plant. Okay. So there's ways to reduce the overall panel space with smaller drives, smaller motors. So again, smaller componentry and almost going cabinet-less, or panel-less, the improvement in robotics. When you look at the ease of use, for instance, we're talking about the cobots, the collaborative robots.
Sean Spees:
These can be programmed basically by a simple Galaxy Note touchpad or an iPad, for instance. So the operators don't have to go to robotics programming school, where you don't have to hire somebody who's got a robotics programming background to run the line. It's very, very simple with these, or it's a plug and play type mentality, the autonomous mobile robots, they're able to carry heavier loads up to one ton capacity. When you look at linear motion, linear servo platforms, one for product handling, you can get more flexibility out of your product transfers. Okay or, for instance, when we look at flow wrap product at high speed, you might be limited to the parameters of certain product transfers, a linear motion servo platform is more of a magnetic type application where it's on demand. Okay.
Sean Spees:
So when products are coming out at high speed, these products can... When you have a, basically an asynchronous to a synchronous process, you're not limited to really just you're handcuffed to the size parameters of a machine, it's actually a lot more flexible that way, if that makes any sense, but another main point is open architecture. What I mean by that is, it's from a control standpoint. And when I mentioned earlier, as far as the workforce and those that have been in the plan environments for the last 30, 40 years, they've known a certain type of controls platform. And whether it's here in the US, whether it's in Europe, there's different platforms. And some of them are very specific to how that they operate.
Sean Spees:
When we look at open architecture, there's technology now that's here today and in the near future where it's going to be like a smartphone. We love to grab our cell phone and we can push apps if we want to order food, if we want to connect with our friends, you name it. Everything's in an app now. What if that the whole control of the line was the same way. Okay. Where you could walk up to a machine and simply through, again, whether it's an iPad, or a notepad, or whatever it is, then an operator can just through a URL, download an app and be able to extract the data that's needed, or troubleshoot, or tie in all the pieces of the line, simply through an app based and cloud based type platform. So, that's where technology is moving today and which is very exciting.
Sean Riley:
We're obviously an industry that's struggling to maintain a workforce and to upskill, I guess, is a word that we hear a lot about upskilling the workforce. This is something that always pops up where we now have a generation coming into the workforce, or that's already here that is so used to and comfortable with things like smartphones and iPads and things like that. So there isn't really, it's actually less of a learning curve for the workforce coming in now than it would be for previous generations, because these are things that they use every day, like you said. So having something as simple as a app based platform is something that these new workers have been using since they were essentially kids. So that is something that would, yeah, would obviously make it a much more flexible line for people to use.
Sean Riley:
I know we touched on some of the material handling parts of it, but I know that's such a big part of packaging. So what are some developments in the area that people can use to improve their flexibility there? Because that can be a labor... You even mentioned, picking up the four pound box for eight hours, that's such a labor intensive type thing, or just a repetitive type thing that doesn't really need a human to do necessarily anymore if we can find better opportunities for the human to move into a different part of the workforce. So are there any other things in that aspect that would improve flexibility?
Sean Spees:
Yeah. When you look at the material on the handling side, especially conveyors, so conveyors at the end of the day might be viewed as a simple commodity. Okay. A lot of manufacturers make them, but when you look at getting your products from point A to point Z, there's a lot of obstacles, twists and turns, whether or not certain belt conveyor belt types have to be maybe frictioned, or depending on the product, you don't want to damage graphics, okay, when you look at cosmetics or certain items in personal care, you have to be very careful of how you handle it.
Sean Spees:
So one, the flexibility to be able to provide different types of conveyor, which we call conveyor chain or plastic type chain conveyor, mainly in the CPG from the product handling side, you have to have a different variety of offerings there for, again, when you look at CPG, it's a big sandbox, I use a sandbox analogy, and there's a lot of toys in this sandbox in consumer package goods now when you look at food, personal care beverage, even getting into automotive parts or over the counter pharmaceuticals, there's a lot to play with. But really when you look at, again, the amount of SKUs and sizes, that's where auto adjustability or easy adjustability of these conveyor rails can be. Okay. When you have to go from 65 millimeters to a 120 millimeters, let's say, or whatever that case may be, again, going back to the changeover, where we talked auto changeover, is there a way to electrify that? There is.
Sean Spees:
We can electrify and put motors on these changeover parts, making it easier, or pneumatic, or however it is, but there's options there that we're able to provide today that can give the end user a little bit more comfort in, again, that overall line changeover and more up time.
Sean Riley:
Very interesting. So I guess with all of these changes and with all these advances that we've touched on during this discussion, let's say someone is coming to you. What one piece or couple pieces of advice do you have for CPGs that are working with automation or entering into to automation, or have had automation in the past, but are trying to improve their flexibility? With all these changes what advice do you put out there for them to help them work with their supplier?
Sean Spees:
Great question. Yeah. So what we're seeing right now is either revamping of existing production lines and how can they improve efficiencies there, or when you look at Greenfield projects, there's a lot more green fields that are happening too. Latin, more plants are being built. So when you look at the overall design of the lines, how can it be more efficient and how can you grow from year to year and not be pigeonholed or trapped into-.
Sean Riley:
Yeah. Boxed in.
Sean Spees:
... line space? So, the suggestion I would always have is find a company that can provide several different pieces of the puzzle, and a company that at the end of the day, we buy from people we trust and companies that are well established that have that product depth, won the product depth, but the knowledge, the engineering resources and technical resources to be able to support it, because at the end of the day, the installation about, and I've heard this term a few different ways, but about 80% of the overall cost of the project is recognized after install. So you have the concept upfront, but once it's installed, it's the support and that keeps that line running and the longevity, and that's where you see your return. So, it's just finding that company out there that can provide all of those factors to integrate a successful production line.
Sean Riley:
Well, that sounds awesome. So I can't thank you enough, Sean, for taking time out of your day. You're obviously very busy with all the things you have going on, on your end to come on here and share some of this information that we can share out with the listeners to help them during this very, what's the word? I guess, dynamic time when things are changing so rapidly and people need to be so flexible. So I wanted to thank you again, Sean, for coming on the podcast with us.
Sean Spees:
Oh, pleasure is all mine. I appreciate the opportunity and it's been great.
